A better way

on behalf of the children

and the facts of their lives

A broken social system is not a suitable environment in which to raise children

A healthy and well adjusted child requires a healthy and well adjusted environment in which to grow

There are no better educated minds in regards the prevention and survival of sexual abuse than those who have both prevented and survived.

Ireland :: Our means to an end


With the Redress Board in its final stages of receiving cases, and with the post Ryan Report confronting it and all that has gone before, and now the Murphy Report copper fastening its findings, it is now time to look again. I believed then as now that the Redress Board was nothing more than a smokescreen to deny full reflective compensation for victims of:


This has proved over time to be correct. Below is the blue print for our cases and the means to an end for real justice: Since the Redress Boards conception over 150 victims have taken their own lives having so called 'compensation'. A much higher number are on medical disability after been forced to confront demons from their past. And all for what you may ask? The average compensation payout is reputed to have been between 60 64 thousand euro which is considerably less than a government ministers annual pension. Victims were also subject to secrecy if they took this compensation in order to protect other 'victims’ identity'. This was the only offer on the table in that most 'promising of times' and it did not stop there.

Mushroom support groups [who were really supporting themselves] were everywhere urging us to take the only offer around, along with solicitors urging us forward for the little there was so they could get more. 'Honest Bertie', heralded it all in with his guarded apology among all the other apologies and was seen as the cleverest man in the room. This is not a compliment. All the time the die had been cast and it seemed allover before it had even begun. At least that is, until now, for it was all just a big con and we fell asleep at the wheel. I hope, never, ever again. Please bear with me a little while longer.

Let us look at the core reasons for our incarceration. Broadly, it covered children that were illegitimate, destitute, and for petty crimes like stealing apples and also truancy. Then there was the 'fallen women' who had their babies wrested from them along with single parents. The word 'bastard' and ’illegitimate’ were used in a literal legal sense to keep them locked up. Words do not only play a vital part in the interpretation of the law but is also used to subvert the law and is common in promoting social prejudices; it is also our road to justice. For example the words, 'illegitimate and bastard' are defined in the Oxford Dictionary as:

A person of an unmarried mother, unlawful, improper criminal. In other languages it simply means you do not have a right to be here. The word 'black' is defined as angry, gloomy, implying disgrace, sinister, deadly, portending trouble. African blood was not colour coded by accident but by design. There are a lot of meanings for these words and it is with words in a courtroom that we will win our fight for the wrongful detainment, incarceration, and imprisonment of children. The following are the legal outlines of our cases and they are formidable:
1 Under the Irish Constitution then as now, it states that the imprescriptible rights of the child should be upheld at all times. A broad definition but clear in its intent for what benefits the child solely and, in all its interpretations, is for the common good, love, care, respect and moral growth of the child. It cannot be defined any other ;way. For us it was violated in all its translations and amounted to a gross violation of our statutory rights as children. We were not confined to any professional care facility of any kind but sent to prisons as defined by their own codes of conduct, rules and regulations. This was assisted by the state in their implementation of those rules along with a wide range of other supports.

This is the cornerstone of our case.

These prisons were classed in sub-categories as reformatories and industrial schools. Below are some of those rules of those prisons that were upheld by the state:

Rule 7: Children under 14 shall be given school instruction for three hours daily.
Rule 9: Children shall be employed for not less than six hours daily in manual labour.
Rule 14: a] Children who misbehave shall be confined for up to two days in a lighted cell and can be allowed one pound of bread, milk or water.

                         b] Beatings as punishment to include cane or birch.

Rule 16: Children’s parents or others shall be allowed to visit but can have privileges revoked at any time within the period of their detention.
Rule 17: Children can be released on licence but it can be revoked at anytime within the period of their detention.
Rule 22: Children who are certified as medically unfit for detention shall be released. In the case of serious illness of any inmate notice shall be sent to parents so that special visits are allowed.
Rule 24: Children who suffer sudden and violent death or under suspicious circumstance, a report of the circumstances of the inmate’s death to be reported to the Gardai for the information of the coroner.
Rule 25: Children under detention shall have a report every three months on their discharge or admission.
Rule 28: Children sent to reformatory or industrial school institution by order of detention, he or she must be Roman Catholic.

All of the above was approved under section 54 of the Children’s Act 1908. Despite amendments to the Act none of the rules and regulations regarding reformatories and Industrial Institutions were never rescinded or abolished. It was in fact underpinned in the 1980's when corporal punishment was outlawed in Ireland but not for these prisons that were made exempt and given a special dispensation to carry on as ‘normal'. The terminate, inmates, detention, detentions, escape and escapees are used liberally in almost every document when relating to the reformatories/industrial institutions, and are rubber stamped accordingly as one and the same.

The literal translation for the word detained is: kept in custody or lock up.
Translation for the word detainee: Person kept in custody.
The word escape:  Free of restriction or control.
The word inmate speaks for itself.
The word reformatory: For the reform of children.

The point being pushed here again is that these were places of detention and imprisonment for convictions without crime. The real crime was their convictions. This case has to be answered and reflective compensation realized for the victims of this forced incarceration and for those lost years with all its attendant horrors. The Redress Act of 2002 and its amendments never even once covered any of the above violations.The Redress Act only dealt with abuse within the walls of those prisons and against the employees of such. On acceptance of an award any injured party or victim was in turn prevented from recovering same in any other court action. No reference of any kind is made in the Redress Act regarding wrongful imprisonment, forced incarceration, or kidnapping by the state. By that omission alone clears the battlefield for us in every legal sense. All wrongful convictions and imprisonments are based on the conviction itself; your constitutional rights were violated. There is areal and very clear case to be answered here without any governing restriction like the Redress Act to hamper or delay us. Each case is only individual by how many years you served in these prisons. The Redress Act itself now lies shattered and prostrate anyway and has as much power left as Canon Law. This was helped by the Ryan and Murphy report and for those yet to come. It will not get any easier for the Government and we should not let it be any easier.

The broad contents of this letter were originally sent to some media groups in January 2006 including my concerns about support groups. Back then they were concerned about the implications of the Redress Act if they reported what I am reporting now. This is understandable for the Act was designed to intimidate and protect the defendants in this case which are the government and the Catholic Church. This letter should be your bible and means to redress and reflective compensation for it is all about you. It is ironic that both these monoliths by their lies and 'mental reservations' keep giving us the ammunition to fight back.


With this letter too I hope to give you the gun to use that ammunition for, without you, you, and you, those guns will remain silent, or worse reduced to water pistols. Do not wait for others to do it for you or at the very least put on the kettle for them so they can have a break. Even those that do the least can still help those that do the most. This is our means to an end.

The Residential Redress Act in its First Section informs us what we are signing up to, its definitions, and why. Broadly and narrowly speaking in all its forked tongues it states:

1. [1] "Abuse" in relation to the child, means :-

[a] the willful physical injury of a child or failure to prevent such injury

[b] sexual arousal or sexual gratification of a child

[c] The serious impairment of the physical or mental health development of a child

[d] Any other acts or omission that results in serious adverse effects on the child’s development, behaviour or welfare


The making of an award simply put is in Section 13:

[1] You are excluded from redress if you have received an award from another court or board for the same circumstances as defined in the Redress Act

[3] In respect of other circumstances outside of the Redress Act you are not entitled to an award from the board but 'are not prevented in seeking redress elsewhere'

[4] The making of an application to the board does not involve the waiver of any other right of action by the applicant

[6] A person found to have given false evidence to the board shall be guilty of perjury and the penalties thereof which includes prison

Later it states: On acceptance of an award you agree to discontinue any other actions against any persons or public body in the act that arise out of the circumstance of your case that you have before the board

Section 24 Where an applicant has accepted an award under the Redress Act under First Section and complied with its terms prevents you from seeking same from other court actions


Again, as outlined and high lighted in the original Means to an End Document, no reference is made to the wrongful imprisonment or the violation of our constitutional rights in the Redress Act. But the haste in the enacting of the bill and the acceptance of it by all parties, both state and the purported Group Leaders has given us that opening.

That rush to legislation fueled by a race to conclusion was designed to pervert the course of justice, but perversely did just that by helping us instead. The worst part is no one noticed and for those that did they were encouraged to stay quiet because of the fear that they would receive no compensation at all.

The Redress Act is all about abuse in the institutions but not the institutions themselves, or the illegality of them and the violation of your constitutional rights. It is worth noting we were sent there under the 1908 Childrens' Act and not under any amendments of that act. The Industrial and Reformatory Acts themselves, though they had two different postings of them, neither one had invalidated the other for neither Act had been rescinded or amended. Even with that both postings of the Act does not mitigate our cases any less. Remarkably even survivors, well intentioned or not, believe it does, along with a few not so remarkable solicitors. Awareness is the key. There is no defence in what they intended to do but a very real case in what they did.

The following involves the illegality of the Redress Act itself which directly violates the constitution and yet again our Rights under it.

The Congregational Indemnity Agreement with the Irish Government was and is unconstitutional. It violates Article 44.2.2 of the constitution which states that “the State guarantees not to endow any religion”. The literal translation of the word endows goes even further: It means to give or bequeath monies, special treatment, income or properties to a person or institutional. This on its own terms should bring the Catholic Church to its financial knees right across the country and go some way to restoring some kind of democracy at last to this green and fair land.

Of course our present Government went on regardless of some relatively minor point like the Constitution, and indemnified the Catholic Institutions until the end of 2005 against any legal actions taken against them by former prisoners. That was a big break for us for haste will make waste of many things.

By the only definition available to it the constitution forbids the state to engage in any indemnity deal that would forgive, nullify, or cancel the liabilities of a religious body against any injured party. Furthermore that would also prevent the state from giving financial favor or other supports to a religious body in any form. Any indemnity would be the equivalent to a subsidy for religious bodies and by itself directly violates the constitution.

Please do not take only my word for it; this is also very much the opinion of Eoin Daly. Eoin who? Mr. Daly carries around in his back pocket a PHD from the faculty of law in the University College of Cork and is employed as well as a Government of Ireland research scholar in the humanities and social sciences.

Underpinning all of the above is what I have written in our means to an end document [1] and re affirmed in part [2] of that document. But there is more….

A very important and no less damaging component to all of this is the original agreement itself not withstanding all of the above:

Any agreement under any statue is built on the principle that all sides are giving full disclosure of assets, accountability, and above all given to truth itself. Right up to just days if not hours before the Ryan Report, most if not at all religious were denying abuse ever existed in these prisons. Hours after its publication came the usual outpourings of grief from the Religious groups for the extra pain and anguish that they had caused. Sorry does seem to be the hardest word but it does not give reflective compensation one way or the other.

It is also interesting to note that because of their lies and ‘mental reservations’ none of the religious have been brought by the Redress Board to the notice of the director of public prosecutions for their crimes of perjury. I will always ask the question, WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT THIS?

If nothing else this document removes the last pitiful remnants of defense that the government, the Religious, and the Redress Board could possibly mount against us. The world is watching us in this fight and history waits for its end.

Barry Clifford

EMAIL: bgclifford@iol.ie

Ph:087 7511113




Herein is our Mission Statement for all former residents of Industrial Schools, Reformatories, Prisons and our supporters toward reflective compensation.

In it carries our Means to an End


1 To seek compensation for wrongful imprisonment, illegal detainment, personal, emotional, sexual and psychological abuse

2 To seek all current monies in the form of trust funds or other, past or present, towards reflective compensation to be liquidized and deposited in one main account

3 To seek all Education, Health, Housing and other supports to be a constitutional right not an expectation and outside of compensatory offers

4 To seek the Indemnity Deal to be deemed unconstitutional, unjust and unlawful

5 To have all reflective compensation offers to be decided by the former residents of institutional abuse, or their nominees.

6 Compensation to be resolved to residents’ satisfaction by their elected nominees or an independent body. Involvement by Government to be kept to a minimum with no involvement of the Religious


I To have a mandate for representation by people of Industrial/Reformatories and their supporters

2 Nominees to consist of five people in the terms of a standing committee

3 Each nominee to have at least ten signatures to be nominated

4 The term limit for representatives is three years before re-election


1 Fire and Ice to be recognised as a charitable organisation

2 To enable the flow of contributions to provide a network of supports that includes the following:

a) a bank account, with all activity available on website

b) website under the name Fire And Ice where one can air their views

c) monies to be used for legal purposes and maintenance of website etc.

Our march is scheduled for the 24 March 2010 and will also be the first step of our campaign that will be taken from the Pro-Cathedral to the seat of Government.

Our Mission Statement will also be enacted on the day. Your attendance would be greatly appreciated. Your part, however small, is vital to the life blood of this campaign.

Bill Of Rights
With the forthcoming march on a date soon to be announced, the intent is to present our Bill Of Rights and expectations to the Religious, the Irish Government, and to members as outlined below:

1] Compensation funds or similar of pre Ryan Report, whether they be hidden under educational funds from the religious or other quarters, along with properties, and other supports, should be liquidized and managed by elected survivors by survivors and deposited in one main account

1a] Educational and other supports to be a right not an award

2] Compensation Funds or similar pro- Ryan Report to follow same as above

3] Existing or other assets to be verified by independent auditors of the religious orders including trust funds, affiliates, limited and non limited companies or similar. Any findings from these assets to be liquidized and deposited in same account as detailed in part one.

4] Additional Government compensation to be added to all of the above

5] Eventual assets to be equally divided among all members without regard to their personal assets or circumstance or reasons for their original imprisonment


To be decided by majority vote that will result in one voice for all. This will in turn convert into membership of a company that will represent one main survivor group, along with representation from a core group working for and with them. The bill Of Rights For Survivors will encompass all members and its representatives and is as follows:

1] Membership will require a minimal contribution along with donations to assist legal actions, representation, website maintenance, office and general

2] All transactions, expenses, agreements or contracts to be transparent and posted on survivors main forum website on a daily or weekly basic, which includes all bank account or visa card activity

3] All persons or places to be identified in transactions, expenses, contracts or agreements, and reasons given as to why and their intent

4] Built into the website is an awareness forum where members can air their grievances with regard to known or unknown activity, misgivings, new information, personal stories, opinions and general recommendations.


Our Bill Of Rights can only move forward in a methodical and successful manner by ‘our means to an end document’. It is your main weapon among the smaller firearms. If you do not have a copy, please contact me or other survivors to obtain one. It is also on permanent display on Paddy Doyle’s website ‘The God Squad’. Indeed, this document is our power and our legal template that will create not only a legal precedent but is based on precedent itself from an international forum. This class action is not to be mounted on the day of our march but on the day of this posting for we are not going on that march with water pistols but nuclear warheads. A wise man once said: it is better to be armed and to be judged by twelve because you were, than to be carried by six because you were not. Let not corruption spoil our aim again for that can only flourish if we give it a Bill Of Rights for non- transparency that shield 

On the sexual abuse, exploitation & deception of children

For those who have and for those who want to 'Hit the Wall'

There is no excuse for sexual abuse according to our law and government except when the abuse has been carried out by Catholic clergy.

"This is a matter for the church and I respect the internal judgements of the church. I don’t stand outside the church and provide them with public lectures in terms of how they should behave..."

Kevin Rudd, Prime Minister of Australia, 17 July 2008.


read more ... http://www.mybrokensociety.com/questions101

This is perhaps the most horrific act of abandonment perpetrated against the children of a specific religion by an Australian head of State and is recorded in our history for perpetuity as being made by Kevin Rudd on 17 July 2008, when he spoke in regards those affected by the sexual abuses carried out by Catholic clergy.http://www.pm.gov.au/media/Interview/2008/interview_0363.cfm

This is a deeply flawed and invalid response both morally and legally which includes all victims of clergy abuse being referred over to the leader of the Catholic Church or the respective leaders of other Churches or Religions when quite clearly sexual abuse by clergy is a phenomena found in many Churches and religions and it simply is not within the Prime Ministers realm to pass responsibility for those sexually abused by Catholic and non-Catholic clergy over to the Catholic church or anyone else.

read more ...

Is it any wonder our children are confused?

No wonder our children are confused - if we continually send confusing messages to our children then it is us who is acting irrationally when we demand the right to sanction them for acting in the same way we do, or in the same way our Government services do.

No amount of resources, education, laws, treatments or levels of incarceration and sanctions can educate a child to function both successfully and rationally in a society when the very society which is demanding that is unable itself to function at the levels demanded. There is no rational response to such an irrational situation.

Is it any wonder so many are confused?

Government and our religions are unable to provide and implement successful strategies in regards sexual abuses by clergy and other in the community.

Government and our religions repeatedly and stubbornly refuse to consult with the victims of these abuses by clergy and others in the community and their carers and advocates.

Is it any wonder so many are abused and re-abused?

How can they expect our children to act in a more adult and responsible manner, a manner which is above the examples set by our Governments and religious.

How irrational and foolish are we when we use sanctions against those who are unable to perform on demand at a higher level than those applying the sanctions.

Is it any wonder our children think we are foolhardy and stupid?

Of course we can always sanction our children severely for saying that we got it wrong. We can also sanction them for getting it wrong themselves in a confused world. Their need to survive and remain accepted as children will simply cause them to cede to those sanctions. This simply shows that if you beat a child hard enough and demand that he agree with you they must if they simply want to be loved by their parents and elders. If they want to ever experience the love of those who sanction they simply have no choice but to cede and conform to the power held over them - this use of power proves nothing other than acknowledging the fact that you can force someone into submission. It in no way proves your are on the right track.

Quite simply if these men genuinely had the ear of God as they say, it simply would not have taken 500 years as in the case of Mr Galilei and the shape of the earth, nor would it take very long to resolve the sexual abuse issue if they simply had 10 seconds with God.

It is clear that they simply do not have that line to Jesus Christ because quite simply if they did they would act differently.

Check these other related sites: City of Angels Lady | Molested Catholic | xt3 Molested Catholics | Saint Mother Mary MacKillop | City of Angels Lady | Irish Fire and Ice | September 1 2009 | TFYQA | My Broken Society